Comments on: A Meta-Thought About “Influence” http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/ Just another geek in the geek kingdom Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:38:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: バーバリー バッグ http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-17918 バーバリー バッグ Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:36:50 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-17918 バーバリー コート，激安バーバリー 財布/バッグ /マフラー /時計/ ベルト/靴 /サングラス, バーバリー バッグ 新作 バーバリー コート，激安バーバリー 財布/バッグ /マフラー /時計/ ベルト/靴 /サングラス, バーバリー バッグ 新作

]]> By: OpinionEditorial — Blog — My Twenty Most Influential Books http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10896 OpinionEditorial — Blog — My Twenty Most Influential Books Tue, 30 Mar 2010 05:18:38 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10896 [...] the always thoughtful Julian Sanchez muses about the whole notion of being influenced by [...] [...] the always thoughtful Julian Sanchez muses about the whole notion of being influenced by [...]

]]> By: David T http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10808 David T Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:15:44 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10808 There is also such a thing as *negative* influence. For example, I have a feeling that Ayn Rand actually turned a lot of people *away* from libertarianism (even broadly defined). Why? Because X's libertarian college roommate (whom X doesn't much like anyway) says breathlessly that he has just been reading *Atlas Shrugged* and it's the greatest book ever written, and it shows how altruism is evil. X reads the book--he may even try to finish it--and develops a lifelong antipathy to libertarians because he thinks of them as "the people--like my ******* roommate--who idolize the woman who wrote these tiresome tirades..." There is also such a thing as *negative* influence. For example, I have a feeling that Ayn Rand actually turned a lot of people *away* from libertarianism (even broadly defined). Why? Because X’s libertarian college roommate (whom X doesn’t much like anyway) says breathlessly that he has just been reading *Atlas Shrugged* and it’s the greatest book ever written, and it shows how altruism is evil. X reads the book–he may even try to finish it–and develops a lifelong antipathy to libertarians because he thinks of them as “the people–like my ******* roommate–who idolize the woman who wrote these tiresome tirades…”

]]> By: B http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10807 B Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:28:13 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10807 I disagree with this: 'If I’m an aspiring novelist, I probably mean this in the formal/practical sense: I want to write novels like his'. It's more like: 'I don't want to write like him, but I mostly end up doing so!' Influence is not the intention to imitate, though it may well manifest itself as imitation. I disagree with this: ‘If I’m an aspiring novelist, I probably mean this in the formal/practical sense: I want to write novels like his’.

It’s more like: ‘I don’t want to write like him, but I mostly end up doing so!’

Influence is not the intention to imitate, though it may well manifest itself as imitation.

]]> By: LP http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10806 LP Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:38:29 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10806 Surprising that you made it through this whole post without mentioning Ayn Rand, who must be the quintessential example of this among libertarians. Virtually every libertarian I’ve ever met was strongly and permanently influenced by the moral intuitions in her work, while eventually rejecting almost every conclusion she delivers, both theoretical and applied. Surprising that you made it through this whole post without mentioning Ayn Rand, who must be the quintessential example of this among libertarians. Virtually every libertarian I’ve ever met was strongly and permanently influenced by the moral intuitions in her work, while eventually rejecting almost every conclusion she delivers, both theoretical and applied.

]]> By: David T http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10804 David T Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:02:29 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10804 "I read him [Hemingway] for the first time in the early forties, something about bells, balls, and bulls..."--Vladimir Nabokov “I read him [Hemingway] for the first time in the early forties, something about bells, balls, and bulls…”–Vladimir Nabokov

]]> By: mike farmer http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10799 mike farmer Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:11:16 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10799 I had a long lunch argument with a very rational, anal-retentive writer when I answered the question of influence by naming Pynchon and Joyce. This was when Pynchon still had not written anything since Gravity's Rainbow, and we were discussing poetry -- he wrote metered verse, and I wrote free-verse, more concerned with the creativity of the content. His argument was that no one could possibly be influenced by Joyce because his style was inimitable and his content practically meaningless (to him). My position was that I was influenced by the spirit of their writing, the verbal exuberance, the creativity, the skill required to write really good stream-of-consciousness without it being complete babble. I've moderated my style because of blogging and writing in a hurry, but your post reminded me why I started writing in the first place, which is in large part a spiritual/creative/transcendent exercise. Perhaps I need to write less frequently and with more style and creativity, as I did when writing poetry. Much of what I read lately, and write, is much too stylistically bland. I had a long lunch argument with a very rational, anal-retentive writer when I answered the question of influence by naming Pynchon and Joyce. This was when Pynchon still had not written anything since Gravity’s Rainbow, and we were discussing poetry — he wrote metered verse, and I wrote free-verse, more concerned with the creativity of the content. His argument was that no one could possibly be influenced by Joyce because his style was inimitable and his content practically meaningless (to him). My position was that I was influenced by the spirit of their writing, the verbal exuberance, the creativity, the skill required to write really good stream-of-consciousness without it being complete babble. I’ve moderated my style because of blogging and writing in a hurry, but your post reminded me why I started writing in the first place, which is in large part a spiritual/creative/transcendent exercise. Perhaps I need to write less frequently and with more style and creativity, as I did when writing poetry. Much of what I read lately, and write, is much too stylistically bland.

]]> By: Jake http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10798 Jake Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:01:16 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10798 Another meta thought, and one I appended to my original blog post: I've noticed that lists very seldom have examples of what <em>not</em> to do—in other words, books that one reacts strongly against. I included one or two such examples in the form of the <em>Wheel of Time</em> and <em>Dragonlance</em> series (although they're really examples of an entire genre and its conventions), but I don't recall seeing any others saying, "this book helped me not think or do x." Another meta thought, and one I appended to my original blog post: I’ve noticed that lists very seldom have examples of what not to do—in other words, books that one reacts strongly against. I included one or two such examples in the form of the Wheel of Time and Dragonlance series (although they’re really examples of an entire genre and its conventions), but I don’t recall seeing any others saying, “this book helped me not think or do x.”

]]> By: Freddie http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/03/24/a-meta-thought-about-influence/comment-page-1/#comment-10796 Freddie Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:07:07 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3986#comment-10796 I have similar issues with how we talk about influence, which I hinted at in my own list. Unlike you, though, I don't think there's much to be done about it. Influence is beyond evaluation. One thing that is important and interesting is that people can list the same books, and even for some of the same reasons, while arriving at vastly different conclusions. The tendency, when you read someone writing about a book that you yourself love and influenced you, but takes the book in an entirely different way, is to think "you're reading it <i>wrong!</i>" Which is funny. I was considering listing <i>The Wealth of Nations</i>, if only because Adam Smith was an egalitarian so radical as to put me to shame, who endorsed markets with the explicit condition that he did so under the belief that free markets would lead to perfect equality... but it is better to submit to the wisdom of the crowd sometimes, I think. I have similar issues with how we talk about influence, which I hinted at in my own list. Unlike you, though, I don’t think there’s much to be done about it. Influence is beyond evaluation.

One thing that is important and interesting is that people can list the same books, and even for some of the same reasons, while arriving at vastly different conclusions. The tendency, when you read someone writing about a book that you yourself love and influenced you, but takes the book in an entirely different way, is to think “you’re reading it wrong!” Which is funny.

I was considering listing The Wealth of Nations, if only because Adam Smith was an egalitarian so radical as to put me to shame, who endorsed markets with the explicit condition that he did so under the belief that free markets would lead to perfect equality… but it is better to submit to the wisdom of the crowd sometimes, I think.

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