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	<title>Comments on: Health Care, Vegetarians, and Contextual Rights</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/</link>
	<description>Just another geek in the geek kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: Health Care as Distributional Right</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9109</link>
		<dc:creator>Health Care as Distributional Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-9109</guid>
		<description>[...] suggested before that the best version of progressivism—by which I mean, the most internally coherent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] suggested before that the best version of progressivism—by which I mean, the most internally coherent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Health Care as Distributional Right</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-9110</link>
		<dc:creator>Health Care as Distributional Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-9110</guid>
		<description>[...] suggested before that the best version of progressivism—by which I mean, the most internally coherent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] suggested before that the best version of progressivism—by which I mean, the most internally coherent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pareto-Ideologies</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8957</link>
		<dc:creator>Pareto-Ideologies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8957</guid>
		<description>[...] it out with respect to specific tenets or principles. As a possible example, let me humbly offer up my own recent post on the popular progressive idea that there&#8217;s a &#8220;right to health care.&#8221; The first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it out with respect to specific tenets or principles. As a possible example, let me humbly offer up my own recent post on the popular progressive idea that there&#8217;s a &#8220;right to health care.&#8221; The first [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Carlton</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8695</link>
		<dc:creator>William Carlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8695</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Micha, for your gentle nudging toward a better grasp of what veganism is. Having checked a few sources, it&#039;s obviously not a part of the &quot;raw foods&quot; movement, although there seems to be a subset of veganism that does embrace the principle.

My general understanding still seems to hold, however, and that is that it represents a more comprehensive effort to avoid exploiting animals than your average vegetarian can claim still eating eggs, wearing wool, etc.

Now, I DO eat meat and consume other animal products, but don&#039;t have any special emotional attachment to the moral integrity of it that I&#039;m aware of. If it turns out that a firmer committment to animal rights as expressed anywhere along the vegetarian/strict vegan spectrum---widely disseminated---happens to produce a greater degree of human happiness, then I can be counted upon as an activist, public and private.

Since Julian has made the point that no mainstream vegan or vegetarian he has encountered considers other animals equivalent to Homo sapiens, I shouldn&#039;t think that it&#039;s controversial to make our own interests as a species the determining factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Micha, for your gentle nudging toward a better grasp of what veganism is. Having checked a few sources, it&#8217;s obviously not a part of the &#8220;raw foods&#8221; movement, although there seems to be a subset of veganism that does embrace the principle.</p>
<p>My general understanding still seems to hold, however, and that is that it represents a more comprehensive effort to avoid exploiting animals than your average vegetarian can claim still eating eggs, wearing wool, etc.</p>
<p>Now, I DO eat meat and consume other animal products, but don&#8217;t have any special emotional attachment to the moral integrity of it that I&#8217;m aware of. If it turns out that a firmer committment to animal rights as expressed anywhere along the vegetarian/strict vegan spectrum&#8212;widely disseminated&#8212;happens to produce a greater degree of human happiness, then I can be counted upon as an activist, public and private.</p>
<p>Since Julian has made the point that no mainstream vegan or vegetarian he has encountered considers other animals equivalent to Homo sapiens, I shouldn&#8217;t think that it&#8217;s controversial to make our own interests as a species the determining factor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8690</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8690</guid>
		<description>a correction:

excessively attribute reason and strength to &quot;moral positions&quot; that rest more on a leap of faith than we are typically able to acknowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a correction:</p>
<p>excessively attribute reason and strength to &#8220;moral positions&#8221; that rest more on a leap of faith than we are typically able to acknowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8689</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8689</guid>
		<description>Being a little too old and tired to lie, what has become clear to me is that people (including me) begin with a vague sense of right and wrong and, for a variety of unconscious, idiosyncratic reasons expand that into more specific moral beliefs.   Then they attempt to construct conscious arguments to defend those beliefs.  But they convince themselves that the argument came first and the conclusion came second. 

While this doesn&#039;t invalidate the arguments, it does incline us to overvalue our own arguments and excessively attribute reason and strength to arguments that rest more on a leap of faith than we are typically able to acknowledge.

I think the meat and morality question is a perfect example of the phenomenon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a little too old and tired to lie, what has become clear to me is that people (including me) begin with a vague sense of right and wrong and, for a variety of unconscious, idiosyncratic reasons expand that into more specific moral beliefs.   Then they attempt to construct conscious arguments to defend those beliefs.  But they convince themselves that the argument came first and the conclusion came second. </p>
<p>While this doesn&#8217;t invalidate the arguments, it does incline us to overvalue our own arguments and excessively attribute reason and strength to arguments that rest more on a leap of faith than we are typically able to acknowledge.</p>
<p>I think the meat and morality question is a perfect example of the phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8677</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8677</guid>
		<description>William, again, regarding veganism: that word does not mean what you think it means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, again, regarding veganism: that word does not mean what you think it means.</p>
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		<title>By: William Carlton</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8675</link>
		<dc:creator>William Carlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8675</guid>
		<description>Re: vegetarianism, I think it&#039;s a reasonable and, in most cases, sustainable moral response to the animal foods problem.

It&#039;s veganism that doesn&#039;t have a leg to stand on. Maybe I&#039;m wrong about this, but I think we have a higher moral obligation to members of our own species than a host of organisms that wouldn&#039;t be here if it weren&#039;t for our own stewardship in the first place.

The health care thing: it was an OpEd by Paul Krugman, of all people, that turned me on the issue. He pointed to the eventual acceptance of primary education as a basic civil right---as a valuable investment in human capital, in our infrastructure---as a model for nationalized health care. I thought it was a pretty good argument.

To this day, it&#039;s the only thing he ever wrote that changed my mind about something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: vegetarianism, I think it&#8217;s a reasonable and, in most cases, sustainable moral response to the animal foods problem.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s veganism that doesn&#8217;t have a leg to stand on. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong about this, but I think we have a higher moral obligation to members of our own species than a host of organisms that wouldn&#8217;t be here if it weren&#8217;t for our own stewardship in the first place.</p>
<p>The health care thing: it was an OpEd by Paul Krugman, of all people, that turned me on the issue. He pointed to the eventual acceptance of primary education as a basic civil right&#8212;as a valuable investment in human capital, in our infrastructure&#8212;as a model for nationalized health care. I thought it was a pretty good argument.</p>
<p>To this day, it&#8217;s the only thing he ever wrote that changed my mind about something.</p>
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		<title>By: Brock</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8673</link>
		<dc:creator>Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8673</guid>
		<description>Vegans need to take a B12 supplement, not a D supplement.

As noted above by several commenters, the human body makes its own vitamin D with a bit of sun exposure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vegans need to take a B12 supplement, not a D supplement.</p>
<p>As noted above by several commenters, the human body makes its own vitamin D with a bit of sun exposure.</p>
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		<title>By: RickRussellTX</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/04/health-care-vegetarians-and-contextual-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-8672</link>
		<dc:creator>RickRussellTX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3493#comment-8672</guid>
		<description>To get back to the subject at hand, I think you could make the assertion that the &quot;right to equal protection under the law&quot; is a positively asserted right of a similar kind. The law certainly can&#039;t offer unlimited protection, and we understand that people with money will always have more options and opportunity to seek protection than those without money. 

Yet, like health care, we can establish a baseline level of protection for everybody and work toward the ideal of maximizing certain key components.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To get back to the subject at hand, I think you could make the assertion that the &#8220;right to equal protection under the law&#8221; is a positively asserted right of a similar kind. The law certainly can&#8217;t offer unlimited protection, and we understand that people with money will always have more options and opportunity to seek protection than those without money. </p>
<p>Yet, like health care, we can establish a baseline level of protection for everybody and work toward the ideal of maximizing certain key components.</p>
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