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	<title>Comments on: Symbolic Belief</title>
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	<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/</link>
	<description>Just another geek in the geek kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: Guns Don’t Kill People, But Far-Right Extremists Do. &#171; PostBourgie</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-9210</link>
		<dc:creator>Guns Don’t Kill People, But Far-Right Extremists Do. &#171; PostBourgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-9210</guid>
		<description>[...] the 9/11 attacks or allowed them to happen, this is for most people what Julian Sanchez calls a symbolic belief.  They don’t really believe that these people are thugs intent on murder–not in the sense that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the 9/11 attacks or allowed them to happen, this is for most people what Julian Sanchez calls a symbolic belief.  They don’t really believe that these people are thugs intent on murder–not in the sense that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NationalistZ</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-9195</link>
		<dc:creator>NationalistZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-9195</guid>
		<description>So, if Chris Matthews waves around a $1M bill would you all believe he was a millionaire? I might have missed it, but did you post a link to his CoLB? I saw it posted on moveon.org before it disappeared because it was a forgery. Please post the link to the CoLB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if Chris Matthews waves around a $1M bill would you all believe he was a millionaire? I might have missed it, but did you post a link to his CoLB? I saw it posted on moveon.org before it disappeared because it was a forgery. Please post the link to the CoLB.</p>
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		<title>By: ad</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-9187</link>
		<dc:creator>ad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-9187</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m using the phrase “symbolic belief” for the ones that either work as a public expression of some associated attitude, or play some role in defining the holder’s self-conception.&quot;

If the purpose of a symbolic belief is to signal the belief holders  allegiance to a cause, then it occurs to me that extremist, absurd beliefs would send a stronger signal than moderate, sensible beliefs.

Incidently, consider the following thought experiment: imagine that it turns out that Arnold Schwarzenegger was actually born in the US, and he attains the presidency. How many Democrats, especially in the most liberal parts of the US, would remain convinced that he was really a foreigner, and that his election was a fraud?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m using the phrase “symbolic belief” for the ones that either work as a public expression of some associated attitude, or play some role in defining the holder’s self-conception.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the purpose of a symbolic belief is to signal the belief holders  allegiance to a cause, then it occurs to me that extremist, absurd beliefs would send a stronger signal than moderate, sensible beliefs.</p>
<p>Incidently, consider the following thought experiment: imagine that it turns out that Arnold Schwarzenegger was actually born in the US, and he attains the presidency. How many Democrats, especially in the most liberal parts of the US, would remain convinced that he was really a foreigner, and that his election was a fraud?</p>
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		<title>By: James Kabala</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8646</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kabala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8646</guid>
		<description>The Canadian conservative blogger has been saying this for some time about 9/11 truthers for some time (although being a Bush fan, she was rather more vehement about it, and she conflated it with hypocrisy as you do not): 

http://deborahgyapong.blogspot.com/2007/05/kathy-shaidle-on-911-truthers.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Canadian conservative blogger has been saying this for some time about 9/11 truthers for some time (although being a Bush fan, she was rather more vehement about it, and she conflated it with hypocrisy as you do not): </p>
<p><a href="http://deborahgyapong.blogspot.com/2007/05/kathy-shaidle-on-911-truthers.html" rel="nofollow">http://deborahgyapong.blogspot.com/2007/05/kathy-shaidle-on-911-truthers.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Winter&#8217;s Haven &#187; Symbolic Belief</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8643</link>
		<dc:creator>Winter&#8217;s Haven &#187; Symbolic Belief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8643</guid>
		<description>[...] Sanchez has an excellent post on symbolic beliefs. However, the question which the post nominally addresses (Are people in the South completely [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sanchez has an excellent post on symbolic beliefs. However, the question which the post nominally addresses (Are people in the South completely [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8642</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8642</guid>
		<description>One can fall well short of an ideal of goodness without being bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can fall well short of an ideal of goodness without being bad.</p>
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		<title>By: EMY</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8641</link>
		<dc:creator>EMY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8641</guid>
		<description>&quot;This isn’t because we don’t believe the horror is happening; it’s because we’re not very good people.&quot;

Oh I don&#039;t know.  Perhaps there are not enough very moral and/or ethical people en masse to make sure people don&#039;t die from preventable diseases, but it depends on what &quot;good&quot; we are talking about.  Certain people are of the belief that ever human being has an intrinsic worth no matter what i.e.  quakers and the inner light of God, certain Buddhists and the belief of &quot;buddhanature, so on. etc. 

Of course, there is the first noble truth of buddhism &quot;life is difficult.&quot; This does not mean that people do not respond compassionately and with wisdom, but that there is pain regardless of what we do.  Suffering? that&#039;s another question.

I would think the problem is more having to do with wisdom than anything, as opposed to &quot;bad&quot; people.  It&#039;s like the serenity prayer in a way, most people don&#039;t know what things they can actually change, and don&#039;t have the wisdom to know the difference between what can be changed or not and what actually just needs to be accepted.  So much suffering happens when that crucal difference cannot be detecrted and then acted upon (or accepted).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This isn’t because we don’t believe the horror is happening; it’s because we’re not very good people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh I don&#8217;t know.  Perhaps there are not enough very moral and/or ethical people en masse to make sure people don&#8217;t die from preventable diseases, but it depends on what &#8220;good&#8221; we are talking about.  Certain people are of the belief that ever human being has an intrinsic worth no matter what i.e.  quakers and the inner light of God, certain Buddhists and the belief of &#8220;buddhanature, so on. etc. </p>
<p>Of course, there is the first noble truth of buddhism &#8220;life is difficult.&#8221; This does not mean that people do not respond compassionately and with wisdom, but that there is pain regardless of what we do.  Suffering? that&#8217;s another question.</p>
<p>I would think the problem is more having to do with wisdom than anything, as opposed to &#8220;bad&#8221; people.  It&#8217;s like the serenity prayer in a way, most people don&#8217;t know what things they can actually change, and don&#8217;t have the wisdom to know the difference between what can be changed or not and what actually just needs to be accepted.  So much suffering happens when that crucal difference cannot be detecrted and then acted upon (or accepted).</p>
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		<title>By: southpaw</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8640</link>
		<dc:creator>southpaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8640</guid>
		<description>The coin-flip answer hypothesis doesn&#039;t explain the results.  Overwhelming majorities outside of the American South consistently got the answer right.  Why are they only flipping coins in the South?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The coin-flip answer hypothesis doesn&#8217;t explain the results.  Overwhelming majorities outside of the American South consistently got the answer right.  Why are they only flipping coins in the South?</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8638</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8638</guid>
		<description>Normal people---people you saw in line at the gas station this morning--- have few epistemic scruples when it comes to political beliefs. And of those who got wrangled into a conversation with a clipboard-carrying pollster at a suburban mall while shopping for jeans, how many do you think had any preexisting belief about Obama&#039;s birthplace? Combine this with the stigma against political ignorance, and the consequent disinclination to answer &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot;. Now throw in the fact that in a state of near ignorance, the fact that an articulate college-age girl is asking you about the President&#039;s birthplace is an indication that it&#039;s a disputed matter about which no opinion is ridiculous.

And now what do you get? Coin-flip answers biased only by how much they wish to affiliate themselves with Obama, whether they understand the Constitutional implications of being foreign-born, and how much they think a foreign birth is disreputable.

Bingo bango, you&#039;ve got &quot;poll data.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Normal people&#8212;people you saw in line at the gas station this morning&#8212; have few epistemic scruples when it comes to political beliefs. And of those who got wrangled into a conversation with a clipboard-carrying pollster at a suburban mall while shopping for jeans, how many do you think had any preexisting belief about Obama&#8217;s birthplace? Combine this with the stigma against political ignorance, and the consequent disinclination to answer &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;. Now throw in the fact that in a state of near ignorance, the fact that an articulate college-age girl is asking you about the President&#8217;s birthplace is an indication that it&#8217;s a disputed matter about which no opinion is ridiculous.</p>
<p>And now what do you get? Coin-flip answers biased only by how much they wish to affiliate themselves with Obama, whether they understand the Constitutional implications of being foreign-born, and how much they think a foreign birth is disreputable.</p>
<p>Bingo bango, you&#8217;ve got &#8220;poll data.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/08/03/symbolic-belief/comment-page-1/#comment-8637</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3486#comment-8637</guid>
		<description>Oddly enough, the wishful thinking of people who hated other recent presidents with equal vehemence did not seem to take the form of a wild theories about the secret foreign birth of those presidents. Funny that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, the wishful thinking of people who hated other recent presidents with equal vehemence did not seem to take the form of a wild theories about the secret foreign birth of those presidents. Funny that.</p>
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