Comments on: What You Know That Isn’t So

By: Julian Sanchez

Julian Sanchez — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:34:32 +0000

I assume my readers don’t need this explained, but essentially nothing James Wahler said is true. The COLB is the official document Hawaii would send anyone who requested a “birth certificate” and sufficient for just about any legal purpose for which you’d need one — such as obtaining a drivers license. It cannot be obtained by “anyone” and includes a city of birth verified by the state. The newspaper birth announcement, also, would almost certainly have come from the state health department’s list. Finally, I’m not aware of any presidential candidates other than Obama and McCain, in this election cycle or any other, releasing official documentation of their place of birth. Anyone with five minutes to spare on Google can easily confirm all this.

By: jre

jre — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:55:58 +0000

The Hawaiian ‘certificate of live birth’ is NOT an official document.

Baloney. It is an official document, certified by the state of Hawaii, accepted by the Federal government and the other 49 states as proof of birth. You can get a passport, driver’s license or Social Security number with it. It is an empty exercise simply to assert again and again that the Obama birth certificate is not “official.”

A newspaper birth announcement is no better [than] a classified ad.

Sure, if that classified ad were contemporaneous evidence of the event in question. What’s your point?

When sociologists of the future discuss the group dynamics of paranoia, this episode will be Exhibit “A” — the 2009 Birther Dancing Madness.

By: James Wahler

James Wahler — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:43 +0000

Julian and the rest of you who use derisive terms to describe ‘birthers’, are using the tactic used by those who have no validity to their arguments. You are all overlooking a few very important facts.

1. The Hawaiian ‘certificate of live birth’ is NOT an official document. It does NOT have the name or signature of the doctor, the name of the hospital or other details that all Official Birth Certifications are required to have. The Hawaiian certificate of live birth can be obtained by anyone, whether they live in Hawaii of Alaska! It PROVES nothing.

2. A newspaper birth announcement is no better that a classified ad.

The question remains; Where is the Birth Certificate that everyone else must have in order to get a SS number or drivers license?

Why is Obama fighting so hard to keep his birth certificate, college records and other background papers locked up, when McCain and all other candidates have provided all of this information? IF he has nothing to hide, this whole thing could be resolved once and for all by releasing a REAL, OFFICIAL birth certificate!

PS; Lou Dobbs believes Obama was born in Hawaii. He simply suggested what I said in my last sentence above.

By: jre

jre — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:11:07 +0000

... anyone who brings up any contrary facts belongs to some “paranoid fringe”, when in reality this issue is being discussed all over the national media.

It is begging the question to refer to "contrary facts" without producing any. Again: Obama has produced evidence of his citizenship satisfactory to every authority competent to judge it. Insisting that there is some other evidence that he now must produce because ... well, golly, because you think he just ought to, is the behavior that keeps this foolishness going. As Julian notes above, we are talking about people who think the president is prepared to resort to forgery. Nothing will ever make them quit with this mishegaas except fatigue, and mockery, and a new conspiracy to chase. The belief that Obama is somehow concealing his records is indeed paranoid, and fringy, and silly. Pbbbbfffft.

By: Michael Wotka

Michael Wotka — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:36:52 +0000

You basically say you are right because anyone who brings up any contrary facts belongs to some “paranoid fringe”, when in reality this issue is being discussed all over the national media. It IS a concern, and it could be easily addressed by releasing the same birth certificate that most people keep in a safe deposit box or some such secure location. Having to have the state of Hawaii reprint a “shortened” version, even if it is acceptable legally, leaves the door open for questions. Do you not wonder why they won’t just release it and be done with it? They could even say it was lost over the years or something, but instead don’t address it. And what about the closed academic records. Can you really just say that doesn’t matter at all? This is, after all, the man who promised to redefine transparency in government. Producing your actual birth certificate doesn’t seem like that crazy of a record to ask for, especially when it seems clear that his parents spent considerable time traveling in Africa around the time of his birth. I do agree that the whole issue is moot now anyways, but it was a legitimate concern during the campaigns, both when presented by Hillary’s campaign and the Republicans.

By: jre

jre — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:55:37 +0000

… it IS a legitimate consideration to wonder why the long form has never appeared.

No it isn’t. Once Obama had produced for inspection a document satisfying the requirements of Federal and state law as proof of citizenship, he had done all that he might be reasonably asked to do. The notion that Obama’s failure to come up with any and every document demanded by the paranoid fringe constitutes “refusal to release” is monumentally silly, and deserves a wet raspberry every time it comes up. Pbbbbfffft.

By: Michael Wotka

Michael Wotka — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:55:30 +0000

I will say that I agree Obama is most likely an American citizen. But your whole argument ignores the root of the problem, which was the campaign’s refusal to release the ACTUAL original birth certificate. The one extensively vetted on factcheck.org is the “short form”, while if you take the time to examine your own certificate, it generally lists such things as the attending physician and the hospital where the birth occurred. You can call this crazy talk if you want, but it IS a legitimate consideration to wonder why the long form has never appeared. Seems to me it would end the silly debate once and for all. But then, Obama hasn’t exactly been very forthcoming with any records pertaining to his history. Why wouldn’t he release college transcripts, for instance? We all know what Bush and Kerry’s college GPAs were, but for some reason Obama’s was off limits. It all sounds like there is something to hide, or why hide it? Any respectable employer will want to know your college GPA. Why can’t the American people? If Obama hadn’t been hiding facets of his own history, none of these conspiracy theories would have sprung up to the degree that they have.

By: Talking truth to stupid: Bill Maher « The Brain Scroll

Talking truth to stupid: Bill Maher « The Brain Scroll — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:44:43 +0000

[...] “a birth certificate”. It’s not a fringe viewpoint supported by some facts, but a viewpoint entirely unsupported by facts, and in a state of active denial about trivially verifiabl…. Bill Clinton’s detractors, on the other hand, were entirely supported by facts, the [...]

By: Fear of a Foreign President Making sense of the birther conspiracy theorists… « -THE "G" BLOGS ~ Gunny G Online -

Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:02:58 +0000

[...] should just calm down. The birthers are silly and wrong, but they aren’t uncharted territory. At any given time, the base of a political [...]

By: jre

jre — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:10:30 +0000

Re/6: Yes -- I never heard it from a Birther, having successfully steered clear of them so far, but I did look it up and, sure enough, Case 4 of 5 does make it impossible in principle for a woman younger than 19 to transfer citizenship to her child. This seems inequitable -- does anyone know if it has been upheld by a court?