Comments on: A Constitutional Coup? http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/06/29/a-constitutional-coup/ Just another geek in the geek kingdom Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:38:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: southpaw http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/06/29/a-constitutional-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-8244 southpaw Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:37:55 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3350#comment-8244 It's an element of our constitution that isn't well spelled out. Suppose Congress duly removes a president; what happens if he or she won't go quietly? I suppose the answer, in this country, would be that you'd get a federal court to issue an order to the U.S. Marshals or something <i>to remove the President from office</i>. But could that order extend beyond removing the president from office to, say, incarceration or exile? Under our constitution, I'd argue it clearly could not; the proper scope of the order would be coextensive with congress' power to impeach and remove. In the circumstance where a president overstayed his statutorily appointed term, again I think a court probably could order his ouster from office by officers of the court. Would it be able to order the 101st Airborne to fly the president to Bermuda or the 3rd Infantry Division to impose order in Washington? I'd say no. I have no particular expertise in Honduras, but my guess is that the Honduran constitution and legal system affords similarly limited powers in this situation. It’s an element of our constitution that isn’t well spelled out. Suppose Congress duly removes a president; what happens if he or she won’t go quietly?

I suppose the answer, in this country, would be that you’d get a federal court to issue an order to the U.S. Marshals or something to remove the President from office. But could that order extend beyond removing the president from office to, say, incarceration or exile? Under our constitution, I’d argue it clearly could not; the proper scope of the order would be coextensive with congress’ power to impeach and remove.

In the circumstance where a president overstayed his statutorily appointed term, again I think a court probably could order his ouster from office by officers of the court. Would it be able to order the 101st Airborne to fly the president to Bermuda or the 3rd Infantry Division to impose order in Washington? I’d say no.

I have no particular expertise in Honduras, but my guess is that the Honduran constitution and legal system affords similarly limited powers in this situation.

]]> By: Julian Sanchez http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/06/29/a-constitutional-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-8223 Julian Sanchez Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:59:32 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3350#comment-8223 Again, based on a very cursory skim of some of the coverage on this, it seems there may be a provision in the Honduran constitution to the effect that an executive who attempts to exceed his constitutionally prescribed term automatically forfeits the office. If that's right, it might put this kind of order within the court's legitimate jurisdiction. Again, I don't really know enough to have a firm view. Again, based on a very cursory skim of some of the coverage on this, it seems there may be a provision in the Honduran constitution to the effect that an executive who attempts to exceed his constitutionally prescribed term automatically forfeits the office. If that’s right, it might put this kind of order within the court’s legitimate jurisdiction. Again, I don’t really know enough to have a firm view.

]]> By: southpaw http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/06/29/a-constitutional-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-8222 southpaw Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:08:31 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3350#comment-8222 Well, yes, Mike, perhaps it would be reasonable to escort the president out of the white house following impeachment and removal by our constitutional process, but that's really as far as it goes. And don't forget that Bush/Cheney didn't actually do any of those things they were rumored to be plotting. Congress can't go around issuing orders to the armed forces and spiriting other branches of government out of the country. It sounds like there is a legitimate mess in Honduras, so much so that there's no analogous situation--to my knowledge--in the history of our constitution. Well, yes, Mike, perhaps it would be reasonable to escort the president out of the white house following impeachment and removal by our constitutional process, but that’s really as far as it goes. And don’t forget that Bush/Cheney didn’t actually do any of those things they were rumored to be plotting.

Congress can’t go around issuing orders to the armed forces and spiriting other branches of government out of the country. It sounds like there is a legitimate mess in Honduras, so much so that there’s no analogous situation–to my knowledge–in the history of our constitution.

]]> By: Mike http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/06/29/a-constitutional-coup/comment-page-1/#comment-8220 Mike Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:28:36 +0000 http://www.juliansanchez.com/?p=3350#comment-8220 Yup. A year or so ago there were, now and then, people saying that they wouldn't be surprised if Bush/Cheney used terrorism, war, etc. as an excuse to remain in power for a third term. Would congress ordering the National Guard or whatever to forcibly remove them have been a coup? Yup. A year or so ago there were, now and then, people saying that they wouldn’t be surprised if Bush/Cheney used terrorism, war, etc. as an excuse to remain in power for a third term. Would congress ordering the National Guard or whatever to forcibly remove them have been a coup?

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