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	<title>Comments on: There&#8217;s Intelligence Behind This Business, Watson</title>
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	<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/</link>
	<description>Just another geek in the geek kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: Jody Tresidder</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3198</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody Tresidder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3198</guid>
		<description>Julian,
That&#039;s an excellent comment.

I am far from unbiased about Watson (I know him and respect him hugely). I deplore the ugliness of his comments - they were stupid, ill-advised and a terrible embarrassment.

But it remains a trivial truth that the world prefers its elderly Men of Science to be adorable old farts. Watson is not. We&#039;ve also - quite rightly -become tired of provocative public statements that seem intended to shock &quot;this PC-mad world!!&quot;. Just because you madden the liberals doesn&#039;t mean you have a courageous point of view.

However, it&#039;s a relief to read someone who doesn&#039;t add &quot;and the dreadful Watson wants to abort gays to boot...&quot;. He doesn&#039;t and he didn&#039;t say it - even though the accusation has stuck.

Anyway, for what it&#039;s worth (from a self-admitted biased source, though also a liberal feminist!), that was a very fair and thoughtful comment.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian,<br />
That&#8217;s an excellent comment.</p>
<p>I am far from unbiased about Watson (I know him and respect him hugely). I deplore the ugliness of his comments &#8211; they were stupid, ill-advised and a terrible embarrassment.</p>
<p>But it remains a trivial truth that the world prefers its elderly Men of Science to be adorable old farts. Watson is not. We&#8217;ve also &#8211; quite rightly -become tired of provocative public statements that seem intended to shock &#8220;this PC-mad world!!&#8221;. Just because you madden the liberals doesn&#8217;t mean you have a courageous point of view.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s a relief to read someone who doesn&#8217;t add &#8220;and the dreadful Watson wants to abort gays to boot&#8230;&#8221;. He doesn&#8217;t and he didn&#8217;t say it &#8211; even though the accusation has stuck.</p>
<p>Anyway, for what it&#8217;s worth (from a self-admitted biased source, though also a liberal feminist!), that was a very fair and thoughtful comment.</p>
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		<title>By: razib</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3197</link>
		<dc:creator>razib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 04:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3197</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You didn&#039;t on the other hand state that black people on average are dumber than white people and that&#039;s why Africa is the way it is. &lt;/i&gt;

watson did say this basically. but he said other more nuanced things as well later on in follow ups. it isn&#039;t a black &amp; white issue, so to speak ;-)

in any case, the bigger picture is that we&#039;ll probably know within 10-20 years via genome-wide associations the extent to which these sorts of things are between population genetic &amp; not.  and most people who are computer savvy will be able to do the appropriate queries on public databases and get the raw data to analyze themselves. power to the people!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You didn&#8217;t on the other hand state that black people on average are dumber than white people and that&#8217;s why Africa is the way it is. </i></p>
<p>watson did say this basically. but he said other more nuanced things as well later on in follow ups. it isn&#8217;t a black &#038; white issue, so to speak <img src='http://www.juliansanchez.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>in any case, the bigger picture is that we&#8217;ll probably know within 10-20 years via genome-wide associations the extent to which these sorts of things are between population genetic &#038; not.  and most people who are computer savvy will be able to do the appropriate queries on public databases and get the raw data to analyze themselves. power to the people!</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3196</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3196</guid>
		<description>You are attributing a claim that Watson didn&#039;t make.  What you just stated was a nuanced, speculative view about complex issues.

You didn&#039;t on the other hand state that black people on average are dumber than white people and that&#039;s why Africa is the way it is. If you think there&#039;s solid empirical support for &quot;black people are poorer because they are dumber&quot; than by all means lets hear it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are attributing a claim that Watson didn&#8217;t make.  What you just stated was a nuanced, speculative view about complex issues.</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t on the other hand state that black people on average are dumber than white people and that&#8217;s why Africa is the way it is. If you think there&#8217;s solid empirical support for &#8220;black people are poorer because they are dumber&#8221; than by all means lets hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: razib</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3195</link>
		<dc:creator>razib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3195</guid>
		<description>oh, be careful. chris bertram the chekist will report you!

&lt;i&gt;Watson made a claim that has no solid empirical support.&lt;/i&gt;

no one knows if the between group differences in IQ are due to differences in genes, but those differences are real.  on assumes that the measured IQs on the order of 70 in west africa are more a reflection of extremely unfavorable environmental conditions than anything else (they&#039;re 1 standard deviation below the IQ of black americans), but they probably also gage the amount of standing human capital you have to work with.  too many discussions of watson&#039;s comments have if there aren&#039;t measured differences in IQs across populations.  the differences might not measure anything more that education, health, cultural norms of how to invest your marginal time, &lt;b&gt;but they do reflect underlying issues&lt;/b&gt;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, be careful. chris bertram the chekist will report you!</p>
<p><i>Watson made a claim that has no solid empirical support.</i></p>
<p>no one knows if the between group differences in IQ are due to differences in genes, but those differences are real.  on assumes that the measured IQs on the order of 70 in west africa are more a reflection of extremely unfavorable environmental conditions than anything else (they&#8217;re 1 standard deviation below the IQ of black americans), but they probably also gage the amount of standing human capital you have to work with.  too many discussions of watson&#8217;s comments have if there aren&#8217;t measured differences in IQs across populations.  the differences might not measure anything more that education, health, cultural norms of how to invest your marginal time, <b>but they do reflect underlying issues</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3194</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3194</guid>
		<description>&quot;That said, there&#039;s something extremely unsettling about seeing a scientist of impeccable credentials essentially hounded from public life—even, apparently, investigated by a governmental equal rights commission—for offering a view about a genuine empirical question within his field of expertise.&quot;

I don&#039;t think that flies.  Not all empirical claims are created equal, nor is a scientist of impeccable credentials incapable of saying racists things.

Watson made a claim that has no solid empirical support. These kinds of arguments were historically racism dressed up in scientific clothing, phrenology anyone? So it behooves someone who makes arguments and advances ideas that have historically been used to oppress minorities to make sure the arguments are good ones backed up by empirical evidence.

This is especially the case of someone with scientific stature and influence.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That said, there&#8217;s something extremely unsettling about seeing a scientist of impeccable credentials essentially hounded from public life—even, apparently, investigated by a governmental equal rights commission—for offering a view about a genuine empirical question within his field of expertise.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that flies.  Not all empirical claims are created equal, nor is a scientist of impeccable credentials incapable of saying racists things.</p>
<p>Watson made a claim that has no solid empirical support. These kinds of arguments were historically racism dressed up in scientific clothing, phrenology anyone? So it behooves someone who makes arguments and advances ideas that have historically been used to oppress minorities to make sure the arguments are good ones backed up by empirical evidence.</p>
<p>This is especially the case of someone with scientific stature and influence.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher M</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/10/29/theres-intelligence-behind-this-business-watson/comment-page-1/#comment-3193</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=2045#comment-3193</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know.  Free scientific inquiry is an important value, but it&#039;s not the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; value.  And peoples&#039; understanding of statistical data being what it is -- even among the highly educated -- I tend to think that &quot;compelling evidence&quot; of some difference in some measure of &quot;intelligence&quot; between racial groups would have a seriously bad effect (far disproportionate to any effect that would actually be justified by such knowledge).  And so I can&#039;t say I&#039;m all that upset if scientific speculation in that area is discouraged, especially since I don&#039;t see much possible benefit from such knowledge (if it turned out to be true).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know.  Free scientific inquiry is an important value, but it&#8217;s not the <i>only</i> value.  And peoples&#8217; understanding of statistical data being what it is &#8212; even among the highly educated &#8212; I tend to think that &#8220;compelling evidence&#8221; of some difference in some measure of &#8220;intelligence&#8221; between racial groups would have a seriously bad effect (far disproportionate to any effect that would actually be justified by such knowledge).  And so I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m all that upset if scientific speculation in that area is discouraged, especially since I don&#8217;t see much possible benefit from such knowledge (if it turned out to be true).</p>
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