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	<title>Comments on: Abortion for the &#8220;Wrong Reasons&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/</link>
	<description>Just another geek in the geek kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2241</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 04:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2241</guid>
		<description>&quot;My answer would be that when you decide to have a child, you run a risk. You should accept the consequences of taking that risk. If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#039;t have the child.&quot;

Your position strikes me as pretty bizarre. If your child has a congenital defect that can be cured or ameliorated by post-natal intervention, should you refuse to use it because you &quot;took a risk&quot; and must therefore &quot;accept the consequences&quot;?  Given that you&#039;re not objecting to abortion as such, *why* should you accept the consequences?  We constantly take risks and then, if they don&#039;t pan out, try to reduce the negative consequences.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My answer would be that when you decide to have a child, you run a risk. You should accept the consequences of taking that risk. If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#8217;t have the child.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your position strikes me as pretty bizarre. If your child has a congenital defect that can be cured or ameliorated by post-natal intervention, should you refuse to use it because you &#8220;took a risk&#8221; and must therefore &#8220;accept the consequences&#8221;?  Given that you&#8217;re not objecting to abortion as such, *why* should you accept the consequences?  We constantly take risks and then, if they don&#8217;t pan out, try to reduce the negative consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: LP</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2240</link>
		<dc:creator>LP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2240</guid>
		<description>Arnold wrote: &quot;If you would have aborted a child with detectable birth defects, what would you do with a child whose defects were only discovered at age 2 months? Kill him then?&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;

See, this is why technology is neat. It&#039;s true that, in the past, parents were (or felt) stuck with a child with major birth defects, even if they would have preferred &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; children over a child with these defects. There was no way to detect them before birth, and the child was unlikely to be adopted once the defects became obvious. Technology that enables early (pre-natal) detection of birth defects is important, because &lt;i&gt;everyone acknowledges&lt;/i&gt; that children have completely different moral rights after birth. Aborting a fetus with birth defects is different from killing a child with birth defects, &lt;i&gt;in exactly the same way&lt;/i&gt; that aborting a fetus for any other reason is different from killing a child for that same reason.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnold wrote: &#8220;If you would have aborted a child with detectable birth defects, what would you do with a child whose defects were only discovered at age 2 months? Kill him then?&#8221;</p>
<p>See, this is why technology is neat. It&#8217;s true that, in the past, parents were (or felt) stuck with a child with major birth defects, even if they would have preferred <i>no</i> children over a child with these defects. There was no way to detect them before birth, and the child was unlikely to be adopted once the defects became obvious. Technology that enables early (pre-natal) detection of birth defects is important, because <i>everyone acknowledges</i> that children have completely different moral rights after birth. Aborting a fetus with birth defects is different from killing a child with birth defects, <i>in exactly the same way</i> that aborting a fetus for any other reason is different from killing a child for that same reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Elson</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2239</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Elson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 00:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2239</guid>
		<description>Chris, I think any father-to-be who finds himself pregnant should have the right to terminate his pregnancy. So far, I haven&#039;t heard of any cases of men being in this situation, but on the chance that it occurs, you know my answer.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I think any father-to-be who finds himself pregnant should have the right to terminate his pregnancy. So far, I haven&#8217;t heard of any cases of men being in this situation, but on the chance that it occurs, you know my answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold Kling</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2238</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold Kling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 00:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2238</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#039;t have the child.&quot;

Just to be clear, what I am saying is that if you would abort a defective fetus, then don&#039;t have the child in the first place--abort unconditionally.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#8217;t have the child.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just to be clear, what I am saying is that if you would abort a defective fetus, then don&#8217;t have the child in the first place&#8211;abort unconditionally.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold Kling</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold Kling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 00:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2237</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why are these very reasons suddenly suspect if instead it&#039;s that the added difficulty of raising a child with a serious disability would be too disruptive or economically draining?&quot;

My answer would be that when you decide to have a child, you run a risk.  You should accept the consequences of taking that risk.  If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#039;t have the child.

If you would have aborted a child with detectable birth defects, what would you do with a child whose defects were only discovered at age 2 months?  Kill him then?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why are these very reasons suddenly suspect if instead it&#8217;s that the added difficulty of raising a child with a serious disability would be too disruptive or economically draining?&#8221;</p>
<p>My answer would be that when you decide to have a child, you run a risk.  You should accept the consequences of taking that risk.  If you are not willing to take the risk, then don&#8217;t have the child.</p>
<p>If you would have aborted a child with detectable birth defects, what would you do with a child whose defects were only discovered at age 2 months?  Kill him then?</p>
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		<title>By: sara</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2236</link>
		<dc:creator>sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 15:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2236</guid>
		<description>For the life of me I can&#039;t get over all the hand-wringing on this issue.

When 85% or more of women are taking advantage of technology to choose not to have defective fetuses, how exactly is that not a GOOD thing?  I could&#039;ve sworn that&#039;s what technology is like this is FOR...

You know, any given woman in the United States is likely to have 2 or 3 children.  Of all the possible millions of combinations of gametes - and thus millions of potential children - she&#039;ll very likely have either 2 or 3 of them.  I kind of have to wonder at the collective arrogance of people who would tell her and her family that she somehow &quot;owes&quot; it to the disabled community to be forced to bear one with defective genes.

Who are these jerks who think they know better than she does that the child wouldn&#039;t create an unbearable strain on her family?  on her other children?  on their finances?  And will these moral arbiters be around to personally care for her Downs child if it lives on after her death?  You people are too much - I can&#039;t wait for one of you to be in her shoes!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the life of me I can&#8217;t get over all the hand-wringing on this issue.</p>
<p>When 85% or more of women are taking advantage of technology to choose not to have defective fetuses, how exactly is that not a GOOD thing?  I could&#8217;ve sworn that&#8217;s what technology is like this is FOR&#8230;</p>
<p>You know, any given woman in the United States is likely to have 2 or 3 children.  Of all the possible millions of combinations of gametes &#8211; and thus millions of potential children &#8211; she&#8217;ll very likely have either 2 or 3 of them.  I kind of have to wonder at the collective arrogance of people who would tell her and her family that she somehow &#8220;owes&#8221; it to the disabled community to be forced to bear one with defective genes.</p>
<p>Who are these jerks who think they know better than she does that the child wouldn&#8217;t create an unbearable strain on her family?  on her other children?  on their finances?  And will these moral arbiters be around to personally care for her Downs child if it lives on after her death?  You people are too much &#8211; I can&#8217;t wait for one of you to be in her shoes!</p>
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		<title>By: John Goes</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2235</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 13:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2235</guid>
		<description>Above comment is mine, I input the wrong name.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Above comment is mine, I input the wrong name.</p>
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		<title>By: http://sepdx.wordpress.com</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator>http://sepdx.wordpress.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 13:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2234</guid>
		<description>You might chalk it up to the internal inconsistency of a lot of pro-choicers, especially the vocal ones.  As you said, Julian, the stress tends to be on autonomy and the right to privacy, etc, but to abort when one wants a child, for the very reason that it reminds people of discarding unwanted humans with eugenics, doesn&#039;t go down so easy.  The moral center of the typical argument for abortion is damanged when the charge that abortion is on par with eugenics becomes more palpable than it has been previously.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might chalk it up to the internal inconsistency of a lot of pro-choicers, especially the vocal ones.  As you said, Julian, the stress tends to be on autonomy and the right to privacy, etc, but to abort when one wants a child, for the very reason that it reminds people of discarding unwanted humans with eugenics, doesn&#8217;t go down so easy.  The moral center of the typical argument for abortion is damanged when the charge that abortion is on par with eugenics becomes more palpable than it has been previously.</p>
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		<title>By: Reality Man</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2233</link>
		<dc:creator>Reality Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 08:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2233</guid>
		<description>Do we really need to rely on speculative slipper slope arguments to decide to criminalize things? A fetus is not a cigarette. American society is also not as chauvinist as, say, Chinese society (for instance, rural Chinese women contribute around half of all suicides in the world due to social pressure) and will hopefully / likely continue to become more liberal and feminist with time. We can prevent the emergence of coerced abortions in the first place by not voting for authoritarians, who in the US tend to be against abortion. &quot;Disability Pride&quot; parents, like the students who protested at the deaf university last year, will still want to have disabled children. The only real argument against this I can see is that this could lead to the end of having gay children, but we are also becoming more tolerant on this score as well. Seriously, if you were a pregnant woman and were told that you can either A) spend the rest of your life treating your child&#039;s disability or B) have an abortion and try again to have a perfectly healthy child, who in their right mind would choose A?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we really need to rely on speculative slipper slope arguments to decide to criminalize things? A fetus is not a cigarette. American society is also not as chauvinist as, say, Chinese society (for instance, rural Chinese women contribute around half of all suicides in the world due to social pressure) and will hopefully / likely continue to become more liberal and feminist with time. We can prevent the emergence of coerced abortions in the first place by not voting for authoritarians, who in the US tend to be against abortion. &#8220;Disability Pride&#8221; parents, like the students who protested at the deaf university last year, will still want to have disabled children. The only real argument against this I can see is that this could lead to the end of having gay children, but we are also becoming more tolerant on this score as well. Seriously, if you were a pregnant woman and were told that you can either A) spend the rest of your life treating your child&#8217;s disability or B) have an abortion and try again to have a perfectly healthy child, who in their right mind would choose A?</p>
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		<title>By: FinFangFoom</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2007/05/16/abortion-for-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator>FinFangFoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 04:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1783#comment-2232</guid>
		<description>Two things:

1.  While it is currently voluntary on the part of the mother, it might be that in the future that it becomes compulsory or at least strongly encouraged for women carrying children with birth defects to abort them.  The path this might track is similar to smoking, perhaps.  In my lifetime it has gone from being okay everywhere, to forbidden on planes, to forbidden in parts of restaurants, government buildings, &quot;public&quot; buildings, and now everywhere

2.  Also, within recent memory, the practice of forced eugenics was common in the United States.  Oliver Wendell Holmes, still the most respected American jurist, once said &quot;Three generations of idiots are enough,&quot; regarding forced sterilization in the case of Some Lady v. Some State or something.

I think people might be making an internal slippery slope argument regarding aborting fetuses that have birth defects.  While I agree that a woman choosing to do so for her own reasons is unobjectionable, I do understand the sort of scenario that some might be envisioning.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things:</p>
<p>1.  While it is currently voluntary on the part of the mother, it might be that in the future that it becomes compulsory or at least strongly encouraged for women carrying children with birth defects to abort them.  The path this might track is similar to smoking, perhaps.  In my lifetime it has gone from being okay everywhere, to forbidden on planes, to forbidden in parts of restaurants, government buildings, &#8220;public&#8221; buildings, and now everywhere</p>
<p>2.  Also, within recent memory, the practice of forced eugenics was common in the United States.  Oliver Wendell Holmes, still the most respected American jurist, once said &#8220;Three generations of idiots are enough,&#8221; regarding forced sterilization in the case of Some Lady v. Some State or something.</p>
<p>I think people might be making an internal slippery slope argument regarding aborting fetuses that have birth defects.  While I agree that a woman choosing to do so for her own reasons is unobjectionable, I do understand the sort of scenario that some might be envisioning.</p>
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