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	<title>Comments on: When Faith Isn&#8217;t</title>
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	<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2005/08/10/when-faith-isnt/</link>
	<description>Just another geek in the geek kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2005/08/10/when-faith-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1100#comment-746</guid>
		<description>That was supposed to have a link:
http://dfryman.blogspot.com/2005/08/misunderstanding-question.html
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was supposed to have a link:<br />
<a href="http://dfryman.blogspot.com/2005/08/misunderstanding-question.html" rel="nofollow">http://dfryman.blogspot.com/2005/08/misunderstanding-question.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2005/08/10/when-faith-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1100#comment-745</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://dfryman.blogspot.com/2005/08/misunderstanding-question.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; My comment.&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dfryman.blogspot.com/2005/08/misunderstanding-question.html" rel="nofollow"> My comment.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan S.</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2005/08/10/when-faith-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-744</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1100#comment-744</guid>
		<description>The question of how people *do* first form their views is fascinating, and along the lines of stuff I&#039;ve been thinking a lot about recently.  I have to read up on this a lot more, and I won&#039;t have the time to . . .  There&#039;s definitely interesting work on things like the changing nature of beliefs about creation/evolution as children develop . . .

I think this is more complicated than you suggest, but  geez, fascinating post . . .  but then still, evolution is compatible with faith.  Indeed, in a sense it&#039;s a vital part of actual faith - Ken Miller&#039;s argument, sort of - the Slate article even links to him &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Brown_Alumni_Magazine/00/11-99/features/darwin.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;making&lt;/a&gt; that case!

Now that&#039;s a twist!

&quot; moving the Earth out of the center of the universe had severe theological repercussions&quot;
I had assumed that this was because Ptolemy&#039;s model had been taken onboard as a part of Christian Platonism, and fossilized into dogma, rather than any deep theological basis - contingency, one might say?

&quot; Such beliefs revolve around giving the world meaning, and the idea that our existence is due solely to the fact that our ancestors were quite good at surviving is obviously going to conflict with them.&quot;

Necessarily, though?  I don&#039;t see this - if it&#039;s obvious I must be oblivious (quite possible). Why?  And _solely_?  Are we having that old methodological vs. metaphysical naturalism  (or whatever one wants to call &#039;em, I like the alliteration!) problem again?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of how people *do* first form their views is fascinating, and along the lines of stuff I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about recently.  I have to read up on this a lot more, and I won&#8217;t have the time to . . .  There&#8217;s definitely interesting work on things like the changing nature of beliefs about creation/evolution as children develop . . .</p>
<p>I think this is more complicated than you suggest, but  geez, fascinating post . . .  but then still, evolution is compatible with faith.  Indeed, in a sense it&#8217;s a vital part of actual faith &#8211; Ken Miller&#8217;s argument, sort of &#8211; the Slate article even links to him <a href="http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Brown_Alumni_Magazine/00/11-99/features/darwin.html" rel="nofollow">making</a> that case!</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s a twist!</p>
<p>&#8221; moving the Earth out of the center of the universe had severe theological repercussions&#8221;<br />
I had assumed that this was because Ptolemy&#8217;s model had been taken onboard as a part of Christian Platonism, and fossilized into dogma, rather than any deep theological basis &#8211; contingency, one might say?</p>
<p>&#8221; Such beliefs revolve around giving the world meaning, and the idea that our existence is due solely to the fact that our ancestors were quite good at surviving is obviously going to conflict with them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Necessarily, though?  I don&#8217;t see this &#8211; if it&#8217;s obvious I must be oblivious (quite possible). Why?  And _solely_?  Are we having that old methodological vs. metaphysical naturalism  (or whatever one wants to call &#8216;em, I like the alliteration!) problem again?</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Bridgman</title>
		<link>http://www.juliansanchez.com/2005/08/10/when-faith-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-743</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Bridgman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 05:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://juliansanchez.com/?p=1100#comment-743</guid>
		<description>This is a point I&#039;ve been making for a while, and I feel it&#039;s an important one.  That said, I do think this article misses the real thrust of religions antipathy toward evolution.  It isn&#039;t just that science demystifies the universe and makes the need for God less urgent, although that surely plays a part; the real crux is that many scientific theories have implied or assumed philosophical corollaries that are hostile to religion.  Consider Galileo.  The reason he got in hot water with the Church wasn&#039;t simply because his reordering of the heavens demystified the universe, but rather because moving the Earth out of the center of the universe had severe theological repercussions.  Evolution is the same, but on a much larger scale.  Evolution, while theoretically compatible with religion, posits a &quot;vulgar ontology&quot; that, in practice, is highly toxic to any form of transcendental belief.  Such beliefs revolve around giving the world meaning, and the idea that our existence is due solely to the fact that our ancestors were quite good at surviving is obviously going to conflict with them.  Religion does have an issue with science in general, but its real beef is with the specific aspects of science which are actively corrosive to religious belief.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a point I&#8217;ve been making for a while, and I feel it&#8217;s an important one.  That said, I do think this article misses the real thrust of religions antipathy toward evolution.  It isn&#8217;t just that science demystifies the universe and makes the need for God less urgent, although that surely plays a part; the real crux is that many scientific theories have implied or assumed philosophical corollaries that are hostile to religion.  Consider Galileo.  The reason he got in hot water with the Church wasn&#8217;t simply because his reordering of the heavens demystified the universe, but rather because moving the Earth out of the center of the universe had severe theological repercussions.  Evolution is the same, but on a much larger scale.  Evolution, while theoretically compatible with religion, posits a &#8220;vulgar ontology&#8221; that, in practice, is highly toxic to any form of transcendental belief.  Such beliefs revolve around giving the world meaning, and the idea that our existence is due solely to the fact that our ancestors were quite good at surviving is obviously going to conflict with them.  Religion does have an issue with science in general, but its real beef is with the specific aspects of science which are actively corrosive to religious belief.</p>
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